Global Taste, Local Twist: Mark Kirkham’s Vision for PepsiCo’s Future

[00:00:02] [SPEAKER_00]: You know that you are a single-sweet journalist, a journalist who is a coffee and says a fleck.

[00:00:09] [SPEAKER_00]: No panic, a personal disc is a risk of the day, with their main form, both the hard-necked fleck.

[00:00:16] [SPEAKER_00]: For deep, a fish.

[00:00:18] [SPEAKER_00]: Just the disc is the dream and the rest, which makes your car a machine.

[00:00:22] [SPEAKER_00]: Because you always have your best, try the best discs from a fish.

[00:00:28] [SPEAKER_00]: You think about the number of data...

[00:00:37] [SPEAKER_02]: touch points we have, the number of direct to consumer and through partner and through

[00:00:42] [SPEAKER_02]: customer touch points at a large field company have. The question is, can we do it?

[00:00:47] [SPEAKER_02]: It's how do we do it in a scale way?

[00:00:51] [SPEAKER_01]: To thrive in a rapidly evolving landscape, brands must move in an ever-increasing

[00:00:55] [SPEAKER_01]: pace. I'm Matt Britain, founder and CEO of Suzy. Join me and key industry leaders as we dive deep into

[00:01:01] [SPEAKER_01]: the shifting consumer trends within their industry. Why it matters now and how you can keep up?

[00:01:06] [SPEAKER_01]: Welcome to the Speed of Culture.

[00:01:13] [SPEAKER_01]: Up today we're super excited to welcome Mark Perk come to the show, Mark CMO of PepsiCo

[00:01:18] [SPEAKER_01]: in a national beverages based over in Dublin, Ireland. Mark's been at PepsiCo for nearly 15 years now

[00:01:24] [SPEAKER_01]: really excited to get. Mark, thanks so much for joining today. Hey Matt, thanks for having me,

[00:01:28] [SPEAKER_01]: according to the chat. Absolutely. So one of the most common recurring themes that we see here at

[00:01:34] [SPEAKER_01]: the podcast is so many people who have risen the prominence in the marketing field,

[00:01:38] [SPEAKER_01]: put their key so to speak at PNG. And your background is no different. Tell us about your time

[00:01:44] [SPEAKER_01]: at PNG and what were some of the key learnings you were able to extract from that experience?

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Look, I think it's a great test of it to PNG, all the people who've kind of come out of the ranks.

[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_02]: I actually wasn't born there and it grew up there. I came out of the gelette acquisition.

[00:01:57] [SPEAKER_02]: I was literally recruited by Gillette and hired by PNG back in 2005, 2006.

[00:02:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And I worked most of my career on what they call the legacy Gillette businesses, brown,

[00:02:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Dersel, some of the gelette work. And I think the one thing that you can always

[00:02:12] [SPEAKER_02]: PNG credit me, they were the first brand manager company in the world and they invented

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_02]: the role back in the day. But the focus on brand building, the key fundamentals, the focus on

[00:02:23] [SPEAKER_02]: teaching and training. I think it's a foundation that a lot of marketers will get in,

[00:02:28] [SPEAKER_02]: in grad school, some marketers will get in just different experiences. And it was a very traditional

[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_02]: approach to kind of brand management and brand building skill. And I took a lot from that. I think

[00:02:39] [SPEAKER_02]: the other interesting thing is if you go back and now we're talking almost 20 years ago,

[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_02]: the world has also changed a lot. And so the type of experience and the type of marketers

[00:02:48] [SPEAKER_02]: develop, the type of companies people are coming from, it's so much more diverse. But I think all

[00:02:52] [SPEAKER_02]: of us who spent any time at PNG, whether they were grew up in the system, grew up in different parts

[00:02:57] [SPEAKER_02]: of PNG around the world or they were part of an acquisition. There's just something about

[00:03:01] [SPEAKER_02]: the learning agenda, the training and the kind of core focus on brand building that I think has helped

[00:03:07] [SPEAKER_01]: many of us throughout the careers. Yeah, for sure. And what you talk about brand management,

[00:03:11] [SPEAKER_01]: brand building, one things that struck me in recent years just that the notion of brand obviously

[00:03:15] [SPEAKER_01]: is changing as you mentioned, marketing itself in the entire world that we play and has changed so

[00:03:20] [SPEAKER_01]: much is brand more important now or less important now than it was when you entered PNG 20 years ago.

[00:03:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I think brand is more important than it ever has been. The question isn't is brand important,

[00:03:34] [SPEAKER_02]: is how to make brands important or it works at different, how to make brands relevant?

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_02]: I think in the early stages of my career and over the history of kind of traditional CPG marketing,

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_02]: the brand stood alone and the brand was the message and the mediums were more direct and

[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_02]: it was simpler. And you think about how brands engage and drive relevance today and I think about

[00:03:55] [SPEAKER_02]: portfolio, I manage a PepsiCo. It is far more complex. It is far more complicated. It is far more

[00:04:01] [SPEAKER_02]: interesting in many ways in terms of how we engage. So I think the role of the brand and what brand

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_02]: stand for and how brands can build relationships and drive relevance with consumers is

[00:04:13] [SPEAKER_02]: probably more important today because there are so many different channels, distractions, competitors

[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_02]: that really change the landscape much more than it was even 20 years ago. And it's more how

[00:04:24] [SPEAKER_02]: do you build the relationship with brands today than maybe you did 10, 15, 25 years ago?

[00:04:30] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah. I mean, you think about the barriers to create attention and on the Gen X,

[00:04:34] [SPEAKER_01]: or when I was growing up, the advent of the cable TV was a big deal. And the only way

[00:04:39] [SPEAKER_01]: you could really create mass scale was getting heavy rotation on a clear channel radio station

[00:04:45] [SPEAKER_01]: or obviously being on one of the big TV networks, etc. Individuals did not have the ability

[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_01]: to have a megaphone and smaller brands did. So really, the airways were dominated by large brands

[00:04:57] [SPEAKER_01]: and they got larger and larger. And many of them are still the largest brands today.

[00:05:01] [SPEAKER_01]: Is it possible for new mega brands to be created in this world where there is such fragmentation?

[00:05:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think the barriers sentry for brands is much lower than it was in the old days.

[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm a Gen X as well. And I think the traditional building ad create a key visual by some media

[00:05:17] [SPEAKER_02]: to marketing. It's gone. It's still part of our mix, but it's not essentially all you were

[00:05:23] [SPEAKER_02]: trained to do. So I do think it's possible. But I do think that while the various entry may have

[00:05:30] [SPEAKER_02]: gone down a bit for brands in different categories, the challenges and the skill sent. And I think

[00:05:36] [SPEAKER_02]: why those large scale CPG brands like PepsiCo and Pepsi and Gatorade and all of our brands

[00:05:42] [SPEAKER_02]: have the wear with all to stand touch the time is because we've learned to adapt.

[00:05:48] [SPEAKER_02]: We've learned to adapt in terms of how we communicate the channels we use, the engagement we play

[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_02]: and as you said, influencers, people are brands themselves. Our partners are brands themselves.

[00:05:59] [SPEAKER_02]: So I think the larger brands who have learned to adapt quickly and actually have found ways

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_02]: to connect in new ways are the ones who will actually be able to really really continue to build

[00:06:08] [SPEAKER_02]: and build that kind of brand love and that relevance to consumers around the world.

[00:06:12] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think what's interesting is we talk about adapting especially in terms of how to get

[00:06:16] [SPEAKER_01]: the message out. Many times in recent years, what adapting means is going to the areas

[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_01]: that are dominated by the smaller players. If you think about a lot of the big brands that kind of

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_01]: came out of nowhere in the early to mid 2000s, really were brands that took advantage of social media.

[00:06:34] [SPEAKER_01]: And then larger brands were saying, oh, well, if we just keep running linear television,

[00:06:37] [SPEAKER_01]: we're going to get lost. We need to go with a smaller businesses are. And a lot of ways

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_01]: they have been able to dominate that space, but I think one of the challenges is how do you actually

[00:06:47] [SPEAKER_01]: do something social media or influencer content at scale, especially if new in a global position.

[00:06:53] [SPEAKER_01]: We can move now to your position at Pepsi. I think that customization and execution at scale

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_01]: in something that was arguably built for more hand-to-hand combat is always a challenge for larger

[00:07:04] [SPEAKER_01]: companies and larger brands of portfolios like Pepsi Cup. I think there was a period of time

[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_02]: with the challenge for everybody. I would say it's an area, it's a space that's open to everybody.

[00:07:13] [SPEAKER_02]: And actually having scale may actually be an advantage. You think about the number of data touch

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_02]: points we have, the number of direct to consumer and through partner and through customer touch

[00:07:24] [SPEAKER_02]: points at a large scale company half. The question isn't can we do it? It's how do we do it in a

[00:07:30] [SPEAKER_02]: way? And I think if you look at the example sale, we have capabilities that we call demand

[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_02]: accelerator. We fundamentally take our own first-party data, we take our customer data, we work with

[00:07:39] [SPEAKER_02]: third-party partners and data, and because of the scale of our company, we can actually

[00:07:43] [SPEAKER_02]: turn that around on our own instead of outsourcing personalized engines, we can actually create our own

[00:07:48] [SPEAKER_02]: engines. We can use technology to be an enabler for scale for our brands. And we're doing that.

[00:07:53] [SPEAKER_02]: For example, we do in Gatorade, we target athletes based on the occasions that in the types of

[00:07:59] [SPEAKER_02]: products that meet those occasions based on profiles we can make by triangulating data.

[00:08:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And we're doing that in scale markets like the US, but also in developing markets like Latin America.

[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_02]: And we're taking this combination of first-party third-party and partner data in many cases,

[00:08:13] [SPEAKER_02]: and actually pulling it together to create profiles, to create automated personas around

[00:08:18] [SPEAKER_02]: how we target content. And that will allow us to a flex our digital social skills and muscles,

[00:08:24] [SPEAKER_02]: even some of the programmatic that we bring in house will allow us to actually be much more

[00:08:28] [SPEAKER_02]: slicing messaging. And yes, while this was maybe a medium that started as kind of a low-barrier

[00:08:33] [SPEAKER_02]: to entry into the social media world, it's actually become a powerful tool to drive scale,

[00:08:38] [SPEAKER_02]: just as TV did 20, 30 years ago. So I think we're at a unique point in time where I think the

[00:08:44] [SPEAKER_02]: playing field is equal. The question is who's got the powerful brands and who's got the

[00:08:49] [SPEAKER_02]: powerful data and capabilities to actually make the most of it at scale? Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned

[00:08:55] [SPEAKER_01]: data, because that's obviously especially in the world of AI. The secret ingredient,

[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_01]: everybody is going to have access to these large language models and new AI technologies,

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_01]: and what's going to differentiate brands and companies in terms of how they activate is the data

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_01]: that they bring to the table. Pepsi traditionally is a company that sold its brands through big

[00:09:13] [SPEAKER_01]: box retailers, third parties, and hasn't had the advantage of first-party data. Well, I got

[00:09:18] [SPEAKER_01]: to accomplish it sell the rap, but I know in recent years given the growing importance of first-party

[00:09:22] [SPEAKER_01]: data, Pepsi's done a lot of work at getting its hands on all sorts of data, first and zero

[00:09:28] [SPEAKER_01]: party data from your customer-based keytopical to the about some of those efforts. Yeah, if you think

[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_02]: about it, just to move to digital and social, whether it's through your own apps, your partner

[00:09:37] [SPEAKER_02]: apps, through existing online media platforms, well we don't have access to first-party data in all

[00:09:42] [SPEAKER_02]: cases. We have access to the ability to profile, to the ability to understand, behavior across platforms,

[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_02]: that we never did before. And if you think about how we're able to target through the right messaging,

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_02]: working with partners, I mean think about some of our way from home or we call the food service

[00:09:59] [SPEAKER_02]: customers. We can actually do very specific deals through their customers, with working with them

[00:10:05] [SPEAKER_02]: in their data. Sometimes directly having access to data in other cases, just working with shared profiles.

[00:10:10] [SPEAKER_02]: The other thing we actually can do is actually work through aggregators. Think about the door

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_02]: dashes, the grown homes as well. Now again, customers like that may not share all their data

[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_02]: with us, but they have data that allows us to actually better target to better look at different

[00:10:23] [SPEAKER_02]: meal occasions and understand what's right for our brand. And then there's the data we have

[00:10:27] [SPEAKER_02]: internally. I'll give you a great example. We have a group of then Gatorade called GSSI, Gatorade

[00:10:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Sports Science Institute. It is literally the nutritional science and the experts within our sports

[00:10:37] [SPEAKER_02]: nutrition field. Now they produce publicly available reports all the time through industry association,

[00:10:43] [SPEAKER_02]: academic association, and we have tons of data knowledge. Most recently, we took that and used AI

[00:10:50] [SPEAKER_02]: to create an avatar. We call her an answer to the sake of giving her a name, but we're using it

[00:10:55] [SPEAKER_02]: for education in just to also kind of bring to life these reams and years of research in a really

[00:11:02] [SPEAKER_02]: relevant way. We launched it at Sports Beach at Kenyan a couple weeks ago. And this appetite

[00:11:06] [SPEAKER_02]: literally allows you to ask simple questions. Hey, I'm going for a 5K today. How many electric

[00:11:10] [SPEAKER_02]: lit today? What's the best solution for me or what should I be thinking about my first work out?

[00:11:15] [SPEAKER_02]: This ability to take data, which was our data. And now be able to interact through AI and actually

[00:11:21] [SPEAKER_02]: capture responses and actually learn by the responses of great creates new ways to take make

[00:11:26] [SPEAKER_02]: really powerful tools and messages around research that is super consumer relevant. In the past,

[00:11:34] [SPEAKER_02]: it would have been handed out at different forums and it would be available online. But now we

[00:11:38] [SPEAKER_02]: created a way to kind of educate and engage. And I think that's how data is changing the engagement

[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_01]: story from marketing. It's interesting because we mentioned earlier how brands are people and people

[00:11:49] [SPEAKER_01]: are brands. And really what you're doing through an activation like this is you're really personifying

[00:11:54] [SPEAKER_01]: the get-to-rate brand and allowing people to talk to it. And I wonder what your thoughts are,

[00:11:59] [SPEAKER_01]: is that the future, obviously, we can't pigeonhole into one area. But if you think about

[00:12:04] [SPEAKER_01]: the opportunities that exist in scaling out a strategy like that where you can talk to Pepsi

[00:12:09] [SPEAKER_01]: brands, you could talk to Mountain Dew, Face to Pine, whatever genre or type of consumer it goes

[00:12:15] [SPEAKER_01]: after and get information and bring the content and brand the life. That seems like a fascinating

[00:12:19] [SPEAKER_02]: approach. Look, I think the world will continue to evolve in a more automated space but behind each

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_02]: one of those ideas and automations are real people. And I think that's the one thing that

[00:12:30] [SPEAKER_02]: in the debate around AI, creativity comes from ideas that are concepted, not to sit back to you

[00:12:37] [SPEAKER_02]: and chat GPT. And I do believe that as we evolve, as we become more integrated in terms of

[00:12:43] [SPEAKER_02]: creative development and the using technology and tools like AI, what I ultimately believe is

[00:12:48] [SPEAKER_02]: think about when chatbot first started, think about when voice recognition, remember when net

[00:12:52] [SPEAKER_02]: first time you call them airline and an automated voice asked you for your information. And we know

[00:12:56] [SPEAKER_02]: that behind that, you would always hit star million times and you get to a real person. So I think

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_02]: the reality is technology enables us to be more efficient, technology enables us to be more accurate,

[00:13:08] [SPEAKER_02]: but technology is only as powerful as the people in the creative behind it. And the example I just

[00:13:12] [SPEAKER_02]: gave you is a perfect example of great science done by real people brought to life through an amazing

[00:13:17] [SPEAKER_02]: institute called GSSI and brought to life through technology so more people have access to it.

[00:13:22] [SPEAKER_02]: They can learn more, they can educate, they can learn about their own health and wellness, but also

[00:13:27] [SPEAKER_02]: we do it in a way that feels, well, it may be AI or it may be an avatar. It actually feels like

[00:13:34] [SPEAKER_02]: you're having a conversation and I think this idea of having conversations and brands,

[00:13:38] [SPEAKER_02]: that's what technology enables because one way conversation through traditional media

[00:13:42] [SPEAKER_02]: have a role to play at driving awareness in scale. But what they can't do is build that engagement

[00:13:48] [SPEAKER_02]: relationship and you see that more and more as we look to leverage both new platforms, new channels

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_01]: and new technologies. Yeah, when you talk about scalability, I mean what used to mean bringing

[00:13:58] [SPEAKER_01]: a brand the life through personification was a brand's Twitter handle where you would kind of

[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_01]: reply and we went through that whole era where brands were talking to be a Twitter. Now there's

[00:14:06] [SPEAKER_01]: so much of a scalable and I think what makes that activation that you just described possible is the

[00:14:11] [SPEAKER_01]: you had GSSI. So you had all this data and kind of this rich treasure trove of insights that

[00:14:18] [SPEAKER_01]: you were able to sort of unpack into essentially a brain that you can impart to wisdom into consumers.

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_01]: And I think what I'm learning over time is the brands that have invested over time in research

[00:14:28] [SPEAKER_01]: in custom content will now they can cap into that to make their AI applications really unique and

[00:14:34] [SPEAKER_02]: critical to their brains. On a percent, and it's also part of storytelling just another quick

[00:14:39] [SPEAKER_02]: example and it's a difference, another gay to table about two, three months ago we created

[00:14:43] [SPEAKER_02]: piece of content that was based on a grassroots program what we call confidence coaches.

[00:14:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Now confidence coaches, we have a looking called five V5, it's a five-aside soccer or football

[00:14:52] [SPEAKER_02]: tournament. That's had 151,000 kids participate in the last five or seven years and we were

[00:14:58] [SPEAKER_02]: giving confidence to young kids. We know that 40% of most young athletes quit because of variety

[00:15:03] [SPEAKER_02]: things, cause safety but actually confidence one of the biggest ones and it's even worse for

[00:15:08] [SPEAKER_02]: young female athletes and it was an amazing footballer played for England played for Arsenal.

[00:15:13] [SPEAKER_02]: And she always told the story about how when she was nine years old, she had a cutter hair

[00:15:16] [SPEAKER_02]: to play with the boys. Okay? Now you can tell that story and people could relate to it but

[00:15:21] [SPEAKER_02]: until you picture it, until in this case we use technology and AI to recreate Rachel Yonky's

[00:15:27] [SPEAKER_02]: nine-year-old self so she could have a conversation about the barriers that she had in the confidence

[00:15:32] [SPEAKER_02]: that she had to overcome and then let her tell her story to other young girls as they place for it.

[00:15:38] [SPEAKER_02]: That is leveraging technology and data but it all started with a human-centric idea like

[00:15:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Rachel had a real story and we just made it more engaging. We just made a different angle to her.

[00:15:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean when I was with her and she's watching this for the first time, you see the emotional

[00:15:55] [SPEAKER_02]: connection that even technology can have but it could not have gone anywhere if we didn't have

[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_02]: that story to begin with. So technology, Apple 5 creativity, it created new retail stories but

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_02]: ultimately when you're trying to build that emotional connection, it still has to be that authentic

[00:16:09] [SPEAKER_01]: kind of fielded in the heart kind of moment. Yeah, well it is the heart but while AI might be

[00:16:14] [SPEAKER_01]: the brain, the heart is the human component, it's the emotional component where you don't feel like

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_01]: you're talking to a robot or pressing zero in million times to get to it human. If you can inject

[00:16:23] [SPEAKER_01]: both right then you really win and you bring the brand along for a story that creates engagement

[00:16:27] [SPEAKER_01]: like we've never seen before. Absolutely. We'll be right back with the speed of culture

[00:16:31] [SPEAKER_01]: after a few words from our sponsors.

[00:17:06] [SPEAKER_01]: So you've been at PepsiCo now since 2010, so it's 15 years and as you mentioned a whirlwind

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_01]: of change that occurred over the last decade and a half. Talked about your journey at PepsiCo

[00:17:16] [SPEAKER_01]: and what has been so appealing about that organization that's made you stay there and rise up to

[00:17:21] [SPEAKER_01]: ranks to where your art today is a CMO of International Leverages. I think the first thing I'll say

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_02]: and it may sound cliche but it's 100% true is culture. Culture defines not just a job

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_02]: and not just an office. It defines the community in which you work. I joined in 2010, I left

[00:17:37] [SPEAKER_02]: PNG, came to PepsiCo and I went into innovation in the U.S., and the reality is innovation in a

[00:17:44] [SPEAKER_02]: CPG company like PepsiCo actually it's a much more fast turning than you realize because of the

[00:17:49] [SPEAKER_02]: category dynamics that we play in but very very consumer oriented, very very system driven, really

[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_02]: focusing on how to get an idea to market as quickly as possible and that to me was a really

[00:18:00] [SPEAKER_02]: exciting time because you were in this big company doing innovation some of the big,

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_02]: some of them small but you had a cycle that was pretty dynamic. But then around 2012 we created

[00:18:10] [SPEAKER_02]: the global groups which we were originally, I was usually base here and it was actually the first

[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_02]: time that PepsiCo had really taken a global approach in terms of marketing and brand building and when

[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I say that we hadn't structured for it like many companies do the PNG for world example or even

[00:18:28] [SPEAKER_02]: when I was on the gelette side very global in nature and what we saw was how you can actually

[00:18:34] [SPEAKER_02]: learn from it, build from the different dynamics around the world. And so I spent a lot of time

[00:18:39] [SPEAKER_02]: from 2012 to 2016 running big global brands like Pepsi and Mountain Dew and really understanding

[00:18:45] [SPEAKER_02]: the different dynamics around the world and if purchase added a purchase, can't go at us.

[00:18:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Originally other purchase yeah and out of New York and then what I actually got the opportunity

[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_02]: 2016 to go abroad, not only I lived abroad a couple different times I got on the school in the UK,

[00:18:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I got to spend time really going deep and so for me the culture then goes into understanding the

[00:19:05] [SPEAKER_02]: markets, their market cultures, the market dynamics and this is the culture of the people,

[00:19:11] [SPEAKER_02]: the culture of the business and the world in which those brands operate and that's what we have

[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_02]: to figure out the balance between global scale and local relevance especially in today's world

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_02]: and digital and channels are so much more locally presented. We talked about personalization,

[00:19:26] [SPEAKER_02]: really understanding the dynamics from Mountain Dew and India. Mountain Dew is the second brand

[00:19:30] [SPEAKER_02]: from Mountain Dew in the world is India and it's the biggest often we have it's massive,

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_02]: massive business for us but the dynamic there it's not the same is what you had when I was a kid

[00:19:38] [SPEAKER_02]: and you burned North Carolina and so you learned to understand the role that these brands play,

[00:19:43] [SPEAKER_02]: the role that the product plays and so from 2016 and beyond I've been basically working in

[00:19:49] [SPEAKER_02]: international roles and came back and took over a juice and energy businesses I've taken over

[00:19:53] [SPEAKER_02]: CMO for the last two and a half years and what's made it really amazing and it's always

[00:19:58] [SPEAKER_02]: you're always learning because every time there's a new dynamic there's a new market,

[00:20:02] [SPEAKER_02]: there's a new competitor, there's a new category trend and when you look at it there is no average

[00:20:08] [SPEAKER_02]: you want to scale to be globally kind of consistent and especially for iconic brands,

[00:20:14] [SPEAKER_02]: CFC, Gatorade, Mountain Dew and others but you need to find the way to be local relevant.

[00:20:19] [SPEAKER_02]: So you do that through influencers, you do that through local relevant messaging,

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_02]: you do that through adapting communication to work in different ways, you do it some cases through

[00:20:27] [SPEAKER_02]: innovation but ultimately still has to be the same brand so the challenge you have as a global

[00:20:32] [SPEAKER_02]: marketer is how can I drive global scale because you got these amazing multi-billion dollar

[00:20:37] [SPEAKER_02]: powerful brands with long histories and really unique distinctive assets but making them really

[00:20:43] [SPEAKER_02]: relevant whether you're in luck know in India or you're in South Paulo, Brazil or you're in Chennai

[00:20:49] [SPEAKER_02]: you've got to find a way to kind of find that balance and that to me is one of the most exciting

[00:20:54] [SPEAKER_02]: parts and why I've really enjoyed the last set of an eight and a half years outside the US

[00:20:59] [SPEAKER_02]: and it's a really powerful learning experience that ultimately you can take anywhere you go

[00:21:05] [SPEAKER_02]: and when you take that learning it doesn't matter if you take it back to a domestic roll

[00:21:09] [SPEAKER_02]: you take it to a local role understanding those nuances I think makes you a stronger marketer

[00:21:14] [SPEAKER_02]: and last thing I'll say is that the heart of everything is human beings. The one of the things

[00:21:18] [SPEAKER_02]: that I've also learned in taking so much fits so special to me is just getting to talk to and

[00:21:24] [SPEAKER_02]: learn from consumers around the world, understanding the delivery driver in Seoul, the mom from

[00:21:30] [SPEAKER_02]: by the restaurant touring in Mexico City, whatever it is I've learned so much about human beings

[00:21:36] [SPEAKER_02]: as well as what it means to be a marketer just by being close to those people throughout the

[00:21:40] [SPEAKER_01]: last 15 years of PepsiCo. Yeah I mean when the amazing experience I mean you can speak about it

[00:21:45] [SPEAKER_01]: sort of matter of factly but the decision that you made in 2016 to go from a senior director of

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_01]: marketing role and purchase New York for Pepsi to go to London to be head of marketing innovation

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_01]: I mean that's a big decision to actually move across the pond and move out of the United States

[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_01]: like what went behind the decision like that and what were some of the biggest surprises you encountered

[00:22:08] [SPEAKER_01]: when you started working overseas. You talked about all the great things that were unlocked

[00:22:12] [SPEAKER_01]: but were there any surprises or things that you had to deal with? So first off I'm half English

[00:22:16] [SPEAKER_02]: my dad's English so going and I went to school in the UK so it was a little bit of a softer landing

[00:22:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I guess. The second thing I'll say I would encourage anyone that has the ability in the opportunity

[00:22:25] [SPEAKER_02]: to go abroad whether in uni or in your professional you should. Why? Because it opens your eyes

[00:22:31] [SPEAKER_02]: up to new dynamics and it's a different business dynamics, it's different cultural dynamics,

[00:22:36] [SPEAKER_02]: retail, whatever and for me personally it was also the first time I'd worked in a national

[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_02]: and traveled and experienced so much before was first from abroad my family and so it was great

[00:22:44] [SPEAKER_02]: to bring my family have them experience the culture experience something that was part of who I am

[00:22:48] [SPEAKER_02]: and ultimately when they are in English culture in the US culture are more similar but because we were

[00:22:53] [SPEAKER_02]: they were able to travel to different parts of the world whether it's the Middle East or whether it

[00:22:58] [SPEAKER_02]: was Thailand, what have you? Now on the business side the interesting thing is you learn

[00:23:03] [SPEAKER_02]: especially when you come from the US so you have to so big and broaden glass and there's so

[00:23:08] [SPEAKER_02]: much opportunity here to learn but you realize that in every country and by our biggest

[00:23:12] [SPEAKER_02]: side there's so much opportunity for your brands and in Europe some of our brands are more

[00:23:16] [SPEAKER_02]: challenged your brands so how you can act differently and how you can approach channels

[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_02]: differently and how you can imprage brand building differently because of those local dynamics

[00:23:25] [SPEAKER_02]: is probably the first thing you have to adapt to. What is different about West Europe versus East

[00:23:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Europe, the UK versus Italy? What is the category? How can I still build this campaign

[00:23:35] [SPEAKER_02]: that resonates across these different market types in Europe in particular again?

[00:23:39] [SPEAKER_02]: The great example where people average Europe to being the EU or Europe, Europe is vastly dynamic

[00:23:45] [SPEAKER_02]: even just within itself so I think you learn also how to stretch yourself. I think one of the things

[00:23:50] [SPEAKER_02]: you go in there is thinking you understand things and then you realize oh my god these people

[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_02]: have forgotten more than you've ever learned so you have to listen you have to take the time to

[00:23:59] [SPEAKER_02]: immerse you consumers retailers we also operate in a franchise environment in many parts outside

[00:24:05] [SPEAKER_02]: the US so I work with bottlers around the world so my partners in many cases I'm two three steps

[00:24:10] [SPEAKER_02]: away from the end consumer so actually your skills of building relationships with bottlers

[00:24:15] [SPEAKER_02]: and retailers and media companies all of that just open your eyes up to a whole new dynamic and for me

[00:24:22] [SPEAKER_02]: it was kind of something I always wanted to do and actually really get your hands dirty but

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_02]: at the same time is how you take those skills that you can learn sometimes in a smaller market

[00:24:33] [SPEAKER_02]: and then ultimately bring it back to bigger markets around the world and so how we can

[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_02]: list and scale and lift and adapt ideas I think that's the power of having these kind of experiences

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_02]: it's different but also it's the same and the same is what this is what brand buildings all

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_02]: about understanding your consumer understanding your brand and knowing where you have the right

[00:24:52] [SPEAKER_01]: to succeed in an authentic way that's right couldn't agree more of that and global new ones is

[00:24:58] [SPEAKER_01]: aside going from market to market are there any kind of macro trends that are impacting the

[00:25:02] [SPEAKER_01]: categories in which you plan that you have your eye on moving forward as we enter that path of 2024

[00:25:07] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah I mean one of the things especially is I look internationally but my time in Europe I mean

[00:25:12] [SPEAKER_02]: our no sugar business were over two thirds no sugar no one was sugar in Europe and that was

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_02]: something we were very focused on the category dynamics are different consumer dynamics are changing

[00:25:20] [SPEAKER_02]: in some case faster than other parts of the world so it was a great opportunity to really learn

[00:25:25] [SPEAKER_02]: both from a portfolio standpoint from a consumer standpoint what is the right set of products

[00:25:30] [SPEAKER_02]: that they are looking for when we call it Pepsi Max and UK but Pepsi zero sugar it's an amazing

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_02]: brand so over 30 years but we made some really really important choices we went all in a 100%

[00:25:41] [SPEAKER_02]: focusing on just zero sugar communication we helped build the category many markets we got leadership

[00:25:46] [SPEAKER_02]: in many markets versus in other parts of the world it's a smaller piece of portfolio that learning

[00:25:51] [SPEAKER_02]: you can extract and take into other parts of world the context might be different but the foundations

[00:25:56] [SPEAKER_02]: they say understanding consumer what are they overall kind of taste trends what are they're all

[00:26:05] [SPEAKER_02]: something we've taken I think the other thing is how you actually think about the retail landscape

[00:26:10] [SPEAKER_02]: when you start to think about international markets you have to think about what we call traditional

[00:26:15] [SPEAKER_02]: trade we're talking about bodegas small shops up and down the street how you communicate consumers

[00:26:21] [SPEAKER_02]: when you're literally in a stall this big we build great big campaign messages but it doesn't

[00:26:27] [SPEAKER_02]: matter unless it lands on that shelf and that small stall in that country that's far away and so

[00:26:33] [SPEAKER_02]: I think understanding the market dynamics of how do you think about marketing differently

[00:26:37] [SPEAKER_02]: you know I've talked to one of our botellers in Pakistan he's saying his customers all get

[00:26:41] [SPEAKER_02]: everything on their phone and we're talking about customers who may be much older than you know

[00:26:45] [SPEAKER_02]: we think they're targeting we're literally engaging consumers in new way we have a partnership with

[00:26:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Amber and Brazil they do almost most of their order through a platform they call bees it's amazing

[00:26:54] [SPEAKER_02]: how they're interacting with all their shopkeepers so there's an opportunity to really learn from

[00:27:00] [SPEAKER_02]: technology differences in different parts of the world category dynamics and also sustainability

[00:27:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean living in Europe we've really been focused on some of the challenges and regulations

[00:27:09] [SPEAKER_02]: and sustainability it allows us to really learn and lift and shift to other parts of the world

[00:27:13] [SPEAKER_02]: and we've done some great progress going to 100% our pet and actually really focusing on

[00:27:18] [SPEAKER_02]: reuse and recycle these are the types of things where when you live in certain parts of the world

[00:27:23] [SPEAKER_02]: or you see different dynamics you fundamentally change maybe your perception of how you approach

[00:27:28] [SPEAKER_01]: challenge or a problem as a marketer absolutely and so it sounds like your role is

[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_01]: fairly complex with even different business models that you're operating whether it's a franchise

[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_01]: model or the more traditional model which you have here in North America given all that how do you

[00:27:43] [SPEAKER_01]: spend your time both when you're kind of working in the business and on the business and what I mean

[00:27:48] [SPEAKER_01]: by that is there's obviously a portion of time that you have to spend given how much global

[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_01]: knowledge you have about just learning and keeping your ear to the ground understanding the consumer

[00:27:56] [SPEAKER_01]: markets and obviously you're operating a team and you have numbers to hit etc for your business

[00:28:00] [SPEAKER_01]: so given all that where you invest in your time and where you investing elements of personal growth

[00:28:05] [SPEAKER_01]: and make sure that you obviously continue to develop as a professional. You've brought up a key

[00:28:09] [SPEAKER_02]: point which is learning and made a comment once that my team reminds me it's like the day I

[00:28:13] [SPEAKER_02]: stopped learning it's the day I stopped being a marketer and I mean that because as a marketer

[00:28:18] [SPEAKER_02]: you should be fundamentally curious you should be always looking to understand your consumer better

[00:28:23] [SPEAKER_02]: you should always be understanding the impact that has on your business and I do mean this

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_02]: and because of that you have to still have even at my level and in my busy schedule you need to

[00:28:33] [SPEAKER_02]: take time to understand the consumer talk to consumers and I think every one of us these so always

[00:28:38] [SPEAKER_02]: carve out some time for spending time with consumers and sometimes consumers should be your friends,

[00:28:43] [SPEAKER_02]: your friends, kids it could be anyone but as a consumer because ultimately we're all consumers at the

[00:28:47] [SPEAKER_02]: end of the day but more importantly we're all human beings and we all have different wants needs

[00:28:52] [SPEAKER_02]: and context of the world around us. The second thing is you're also going to carve out time

[00:28:56] [SPEAKER_02]: to shake and I don't think we do enough of that. I color code my calendar, I've done it for

[00:29:02] [SPEAKER_02]: long time and I'm going to do it by brand or by different type of business meetings but I also use

[00:29:06] [SPEAKER_02]: the color black and I block out and it says block but that's my thinking time. You need to make

[00:29:11] [SPEAKER_02]: sure you carve out time to think because not that you're not always constantly thinking but that

[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_02]: dedicated moment that hour that half hour even 15 minutes sometimes will allow you to kind of

[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_02]: challenge your perception maybe open up to new ideas maybe look at a different category for a moment

[00:29:27] [SPEAKER_02]: that you hadn't thought about so I think carving out time the other thing I said misconduct

[00:29:31] [SPEAKER_02]: ties to the earlier conversation you got to get into the market you got to understand and this isn't

[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_02]: just about understanding the humans and the business but it the teams really understanding the culture

[00:29:41] [SPEAKER_02]: of the teams you work with what drives and what motivates them what worries them what's going on in

[00:29:47] [SPEAKER_02]: their world that you may not be able to help in everything you do but even just understanding

[00:29:51] [SPEAKER_02]: having the context and being able to step back and say I understand the challenges

[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_02]: or the opportunities that you face how can I help that's a big play and I think that you have to

[00:30:00] [SPEAKER_02]: bring it outside in so for example in our office in Dublin we have 32 different nationalities

[00:30:06] [SPEAKER_02]: okay our core teams 85 people so 30 say internationalities and 85 people that dynamic creates

[00:30:13] [SPEAKER_02]: such an amazing environment for my teams people from the US to Pakistan to Russia to Latin America

[00:30:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Venezuela like you've got so many chances to interact with people from all over the world in a

[00:30:25] [SPEAKER_02]: floor you know that you know the size of a football field and so having that ability to learn

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_02]: for each other share is really really important and then the last thing I say is just be open

[00:30:37] [SPEAKER_02]: and create opportunities for people to share and I think we are always busy but sometimes

[00:30:43] [SPEAKER_02]: you go step back and just ask a question around hey what do you guys up to what are you working on

[00:30:48] [SPEAKER_02]: what is the biggest challenge of the day give people that open door to come to you because

[00:30:54] [SPEAKER_02]: we're busy but making the time to understand what regardless of level someone's working on

[00:31:00] [SPEAKER_02]: or where they want to go in their career I mean this fall of the office is a better

[00:31:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm lucky we've got about 3000 people throughout Ireland but our core international business

[00:31:08] [SPEAKER_02]: team is marketing is just about 88 and five but just having that time so you really making the time

[00:31:14] [SPEAKER_02]: organizing your schedule and way to make sure you have to think be with consumers and your

[00:31:19] [SPEAKER_02]: markets those are the things that I think make you successful I think if you do that and you know

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_02]: your business all the other things all the leadership meetings all the kind of more business

[00:31:28] [SPEAKER_02]: focus things it just makes you have more valuable in those sessions if you do the other things

[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_01]: absolutely and we talked a lot about AI as a wrap up here and how it's going to impact so many

[00:31:38] [SPEAKER_01]: aspects of society and obviously the marketing world one part I think it shouldn't be impacting

[00:31:43] [SPEAKER_01]: probably take a while for it to impact is just how younger people are educated because the notion

[00:31:48] [SPEAKER_01]: of memorizing things for a test and re-urgitating it is going to be a skill set that's far less

[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_01]: valuable in this new AI driven world that may be in the past so the question I have for you is

[00:31:59] [SPEAKER_01]: what should young people whether they're college age or later in their high school years if they

[00:32:04] [SPEAKER_01]: want to end up as a CMO one day like yourself what should they be focused on learning and developing

[00:32:09] [SPEAKER_01]: their skills at earlier phase of their career or their journey I would say don't let a computer

[00:32:14] [SPEAKER_02]: do the learning for you be the first thing I would say and this is not a comment about AI it's a

[00:32:19] [SPEAKER_02]: comment of what does it take to truly learn when Clich notes came out that was like the end of

[00:32:25] [SPEAKER_02]: reading a book that didn't turn up in the case so when Google came out that was going to make

[00:32:29] [SPEAKER_02]: research and uses people still go to libraries when the mobile phone came out oh that was going to

[00:32:34] [SPEAKER_02]: kill the TV so people are watching TV and AI isn't a naveler for so many things many companies

[00:32:40] [SPEAKER_02]: around the world we've been using AI in the back of house for years right having to look

[00:32:43] [SPEAKER_02]: in logistic, heavily in forecasting and planning but now I think the interesting it's impacting

[00:32:47] [SPEAKER_02]: on the front end of consumers and so I think it's soon to be college age jolter she's a senior

[00:32:53] [SPEAKER_02]: in high school and look technology helps her hone her skills but studying experiencing life

[00:33:00] [SPEAKER_02]: running for clubs doing all those things which by the way universities care a ton about

[00:33:06] [SPEAKER_02]: is almost more important than any tool of technology that helps you maybe understand something

[00:33:12] [SPEAKER_02]: in a less linear way I think style of learning has changed a lot too we had a very different

[00:33:17] [SPEAKER_02]: style when we grew up and was probably more structured it was probably more linear it probably

[00:33:22] [SPEAKER_02]: was more memorization but these are actually students who now through experience and because of

[00:33:27] [SPEAKER_02]: they can go watch a surgery via zoom my daughter literally watched the surgery via zoom

[00:33:33] [SPEAKER_02]: during COVID in Ireland in LA someone was doing a surgery and that's what inspired her to become a

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_02]: doctor now she wants to be a doctor because of things like that so that technology enabled

[00:33:44] [SPEAKER_02]: something that couldn't have existed when you and I grew up but it didn't replace the experience

[00:33:49] [SPEAKER_02]: or the kind of curiosity that my daughter has or that the technology enabled so like any other

[00:33:56] [SPEAKER_02]: technology before maybe this one's a little bit different maybe this one offers different characteristics

[00:34:00] [SPEAKER_02]: and maybe allows for more powerful outputs but actually the inputs are as important if not

[00:34:07] [SPEAKER_02]: more important than the outputs when it comes to these things as fantastic advice and then I

[00:34:12] [SPEAKER_01]: agree with you across the board in terms of just the core drivers that make somebody successful

[00:34:17] [SPEAKER_01]: and you can't lose that no matter what the technology is so it's almost like the more things

[00:34:21] [SPEAKER_01]: change and where they stay the same you can serve the best way to summarize that so it's a finish up

[00:34:25] [SPEAKER_01]: mark and this has been a great discussion I can't wait for our listeners to hear it

[00:34:29] [SPEAKER_01]: is there a quarter of a mantra that you like to live by you share it so much wisdom with us today

[00:34:32] [SPEAKER_01]: that I don't know if you could bottle a lot in a sentence or not but I figured we give it a try

[00:34:36] [SPEAKER_02]: I think I said it earlier about this idea the day you stopped learning it's a day you stopped

[00:34:40] [SPEAKER_02]: being a marketer I mean it's not even just about being a marketer it's a day stop learning

[00:34:44] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think you'll ever be the person that you could ultimately be I think also finding that kind of

[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_02]: always give credit to a writer James Curry wrote a book about the all blacks and what business

[00:35:01] [SPEAKER_02]: is learning all blacks and it's a mantra that the all blacks the New Zealand rugby team has which

[00:35:05] [SPEAKER_02]: is always leave the shirt in a better place than where you found it and it's a sport analogy

[00:35:10] [SPEAKER_02]: but it can go through anything in life we can go as a kid it goes leader it can go as a teacher

[00:35:15] [SPEAKER_02]: this idea that I've this amazing opportunity to run these amazing brand and I'm just trying to make

[00:35:21] [SPEAKER_02]: better for the next person who gets to take them over after me and if I make success in doing that

[00:35:26] [SPEAKER_02]: and I learn along the way I've had a hell of a career I love that we're going to leave with that thank you

[00:35:31] [SPEAKER_01]: so much for joining us today Mark and I really cannot wait for already into here from your journey

[00:35:36] [SPEAKER_01]: in your wisdom so thanks again thanks Mark appreciate it all be happy to see you again

[00:35:40] [SPEAKER_01]: to be keen thanks again to Mark Kirkham CMO at Peppercut International beverages for joining us today

[00:35:45] [SPEAKER_01]: be sure to subscribe right review to speed of culture podcasts on your favorite podcast platform

[00:35:48] [SPEAKER_01]: so next time see you soon everyone take care

[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_00]: you know that you're a professional fan of the club's channel

[00:36:43] [SPEAKER_00]: a lovely shirt on the top of the coffee and say a flick no panic

[00:36:48] [SPEAKER_00]: a pair of masks every day with their craftform forms besides themselves the hard-nackees

[00:36:54] [SPEAKER_00]: flaking for deep rain a few the discs in the trommel and the rest that's

[00:36:59] [SPEAKER_00]: a washing machine because you always have your best there are now the best discs of a pair of

[00:37:05] [SPEAKER_00]: and the other side of the children are also used.