How Carnival Cruise Lines is Navigating the Future of Travel with CMO, Amy Martin Ziegenfuss

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[00:00:36] I think the entire industry and travel as a whole really benefited from people wanting to get back out there. They felt robbed. Their trips, their travel, their leisure, their experiences, and man have a comeback in droves, which is amazing.

[00:00:52] To thrive in a rapidly evolving landscape, brands must move at an ever-increasing pace. I'm Matt Britton, founder and CEO of Suzy. Join me and key industry leaders as we dive deep into the shifting consumer trends within their industry, why it matters now,

[00:01:06] and how you can keep up. Welcome to the Speed of Culture. Today, we're thrilled to welcome Amy Martin-Ziegenfuss,

[00:01:17] the Chief Marketing Officer at Carnival Cruise Lines. Amy is a seasonal global marketing executive with expensive experience across the hospitality industry.

[00:01:25] Amy, so great to see you. Thank you so much for having me. Absolutely. So I've always been fascinated with the cruise line industry.

[00:01:32] I know you're relatively new to the role, but you're certainly not new to the world of hospitality.

[00:01:37] What is something that you learned when you took over the role of CMO at Carnival Cruise Line that you didn't expect in terms of maybe some category-specific challenges or opportunities?

[00:01:47] There are quite a few. You know, you think, oh, well, I've been in hotels a long time before this, and it's a floating hotel.

[00:01:53] Well, but that vastly oversimplifies things. It's really a complex industry, as you might imagine. I mean, there are so many things related to, for instance, did you know that ships can't ever stop?

[00:02:06] So during the pandemic, for every cruise line, they had to keep the ships moving because if they stop, they start to have all kinds of issues.

[00:02:14] So you got to keep them running.

[00:02:15] Maintenance-related issues.

[00:02:16] Right. Exactly. So they got to run. They got to keep moving. The speed that cruise ships go is a really delicate balance because you obviously want to get people to where they're going.

[00:02:26] But the faster you go, the more fuel you burn. So obviously we want to be sustainable. We want to keep costs down.

[00:02:32] So you have to think very carefully about itinerary planning. So those are some of the things that were really interesting to me.

[00:02:38] And then as a marketeer, coming from, I spent a long time in hotels, which I know we'll probably talk about, and then coming to the cruise space, we really do get a chance to impact the end-to-end vacation experience in a way that the hotel space is heavily franchised.

[00:02:52] So you have influence over the entire trip, but it's harder to kind of influence all of the customer experience throughout.

[00:03:01] Whereas in the cruise space, that's really exciting. You actually get to really think about it all the way through.

[00:03:05] Yeah, absolutely. And speaking of COVID, I mean, there were so many people that were saying during COVID, oh, the cruise line industry is over because it got so much bad publicity, especially back in March of 2020.

[00:03:16] And obviously the industry made a thriving comeback now. How did COVID impact the cruise line industry and maybe Carnival more specifically coming out on the other side of it?

[00:03:27] Yeah, I think to your point, it was a tough industry. It had a lot of things stacked against it.

[00:03:31] That's for sure.

[00:03:33] For sure. And it was literally, the cruise lines weren't allowed to sail really late when other businesses were back up and running. So definitely it was a tough time.

[00:03:42] And then I think the entire industry and travel as a whole really benefited from people wanting to get back out there.

[00:03:49] They felt robbed. Their trips, their travel, their leisure, their experiences, and man, have they come back in droves, which is amazing.

[00:03:57] And I think the cruise space has benefited too, because it's a really great value. You get a lot of things included. You can plan for that. And especially with economic uncertainties, right? It really helps with that.

[00:04:08] Inflation.

[00:04:09] Totally. Exactly. And the other thing is you can come in lots of various shapes and sizes of groups. You can go as a singleton. You can come with couple or a couple of couples or multi-gen families. It's really easy to kind of be together.

[00:04:23] I think a lot of people wanted that coming back from the pandemic, be together, but also do your own thing and then meet up again. So I think there's a lot of factors that kind of play into it.

[00:04:31] Yeah, for sure. And especially for families with small children. I mean, good luck taking multiple flights to multiple different destinations where you only have to unpack and pack once.

[00:04:40] But I'm sure that's part of your overall positioning in terms of ease for families.

[00:04:45] Absolutely. Ease for families. I think a lot of people who just don't want the half full. So no question.

[00:04:51] So let's talk about your ideal customer profile, because you just mentioned a lot of different consumer types. Do you focus on any one type of customer for different cruise lines? How do you look at targeting and who you're focused on to drive future growth for the business?

[00:05:06] Yeah, we really think of it as a mindset versus a demographic for you are very familiar with that.

[00:05:12] If you look at this one age range, you're going to miss a whole lot of people in that.

[00:05:16] So we really think about it as the type of people who our experience is going to appeal to.

[00:05:21] We're a very social experience. The Carnival brand is known for activating, having an activated vibe on board.

[00:05:28] That's not for everyone. But the people who are looking for that, who love interacting, be part of things, to interact with the crew, with each other.

[00:05:36] That is something that is really appealing to our kind of customer.

[00:05:40] And we see that cutting across all kinds of demographics from kind of family, young families in their 30s, the parents in their 30s, through to retirees who absolutely also looking for that kind of vibe and that kind of experience.

[00:05:53] So it's really about the mindset for us. And that's what we're focused on. Our sister cruise lines within Carnival Corp have very different targets and very different customer segmentations that they're going after.

[00:06:04] So we're not really overlapping, which is really, really helpful.

[00:06:07] Yeah, totally makes sense. And in terms of the marketing mix that you need to focus on to drive, continue growth for your brand.

[00:06:13] And obviously, customer loyalty is so very important because so many people that go on a cruise line tend to come back over and over again.

[00:06:21] And you are one of the businesses that has the benefit of first party data where you can mine that data and drive personalization.

[00:06:27] But at the same time, you want to build your brand. So you're bringing younger or first time customers into the portfolio.

[00:06:34] How do you look at that overall marketing mix in a world where first party data is so incredibly coveted?

[00:06:39] Yeah, it's very true. And we are very lucky, as you say. So, you know, we have an incredible base of really engaged super fans.

[00:06:47] And that was something that was fabulous to uncover when I joined the brand, because our people really do love the brand and almost consider it a lifestyle, which is just amazing.

[00:06:57] So that's incredible. We obviously want to nurture that. We connect with them in many, many ways through all kinds of channels.

[00:07:04] Obviously, social is a big one, but lots of different ways and means. And we have a loyalty program for them.

[00:07:08] And then we think carefully about continuing to keep the pipeline filled, like you said, with more first time cruisers or those who are looking for our type of vibe and our type of vacation.

[00:07:19] Something that's all inclusive, it's packaged. We're offering a variety of experiences, but it's kind of all in one place.

[00:07:25] That's what we try to kind of help to appeal to first timers.

[00:07:29] Yeah. And most advertising above the line advertising I've seen for cruise lines have focused on the ship and the ship experience.

[00:07:37] You see the water slide and the buffet and all different things.

[00:07:41] Is that sort of the tried and true motion to build awareness?

[00:07:45] Or have there been other tactics from the advertising and even content distribution standpoint that you have found effective?

[00:07:51] I think we've all talked a lot about what the experience on the ship is like.

[00:07:56] And I think there's a need to go deeper.

[00:07:59] I think we're trying to do that.

[00:08:01] And I think we've done it well in some ways.

[00:08:03] I think we have more to do in others, frankly.

[00:08:06] I think helping people to understand what the experience is like beyond the activities is really important.

[00:08:12] And I think sometimes that has to happen through having other people help us tell our stories, whether that's our customers and social.

[00:08:18] And we encourage that.

[00:08:19] Or influencers that we work with because they really help us to reach different audiences and tell that story in a way that because you can't get people.

[00:08:26] It's not like a hotel where everybody's been in one.

[00:08:29] If you've never been on a ship, you've never been on a ship.

[00:08:31] So then you're probably not going to do it unless you have a better understanding of what it's like.

[00:08:34] So helping us to bring that to life on land, leading to some of our celebrity partners like Garfieri, Amar Lagasse, even Shaquille O'Neal to help us kind of really tell the story through their lens and help people understand what the experience is like.

[00:08:48] That's all been really helpful for us.

[00:08:50] And I think you'll see us doing more of those things as we kind of work through how we really bring that experience to life.

[00:08:56] Yeah.

[00:08:56] I mean, you mentioned influencers and I have small children.

[00:08:59] So some intimately aware of the fact that influencers in the mom world just have such large impact on consideration and preference and purchase and consumer behaviors, all those things.

[00:09:12] Have you found that to be an effective channel?

[00:09:14] And what are some of the ways that you've activated the creator economy and influencers?

[00:09:19] Absolutely, we have.

[00:09:20] We work with several influencers who have really helped us to dimensionalize the experience, like I was saying.

[00:09:26] The McFarlands are a family with older kids, for instance, that we've worked with to help us because we found we had a little bit of a perception of being only for families with young kids.

[00:09:36] So, which is true, but also we have everything for kind of every age range.

[00:09:41] So we purposely worked with them to have them help us tell the story about how when you're kind of traveling as a family, but the kids are late teens, 20s, what is there to do kind of a thing?

[00:09:51] How does that work for that family?

[00:09:52] And they've really helped us with that.

[00:09:54] We've worked with my rich BFF.

[00:09:56] She's really helped us tell the story of what a great value it is and how much you get for this experience and out of a carnival cruise and how that compares to land-based vacations and all-inclusives.

[00:10:07] And so that's another angle we've taken.

[00:10:09] And she appeals to younger demographics, kind of more younger millennials.

[00:10:13] And so that was helpful for us.

[00:10:15] So we try to be very kind of choiceful on how we partner with them to kind of help us reach either niche audiences or speak to a challenge we're finding that we were struggling to overcome on our own.

[00:10:26] And the form factor of social media and stories on Instagram and TikTok and Snapchat really does fit well with your offering because it's not something that can easily be told in 15 or 30 seconds.

[00:10:41] There's so many different parts to the experience and you want to be able to tell a story of what the experience is like from start to finish.

[00:10:48] And I think social media fits perfectly with that.

[00:10:51] Yes, it's true.

[00:10:52] Even our own content creators that are part of the brand, you know, they do a lot of some of the things that are most popular are things like cabin tours.

[00:11:00] Just because people want to know what's in here.

[00:11:03] You're not going to show that in a TV spot, to your point, but they want to know, like, what's it going to look like?

[00:11:07] And where do I put my stuff?

[00:11:08] And, you know, I get it.

[00:11:11] And also, like, it's not like they can check out if they don't like it after a day.

[00:11:14] So it is a commitment as well.

[00:11:15] So it's almost closer to like a car than it is going to stay in a hotel because you are committing for a longer period of time.

[00:11:22] That's right.

[00:11:23] You need more of a build your own virtual tour kind of a situation.

[00:11:27] Yeah.

[00:11:28] Absolutely.

[00:11:28] So a big thing I noticed recently in the cruise line industry is a lot of collaborations with brands that would just say are on land.

[00:11:37] So you're a partner with a restaurant chain or you're a partner with a retailer to basically bring some of the beloved brands that consumers have out of sea with them.

[00:11:46] Is that part of the overall marketing mix in terms of thinking of you mentioned celebrities, but obviously what other brands can we collaborate with to borrow equity from those brands and round out the experience and allure to the consumer?

[00:12:00] Yeah, it absolutely is.

[00:12:01] And it's something we think about a lot in making the right kind of collabs.

[00:12:05] We have one with Dr. Seuss, for instance, which is a really powerful one for us.

[00:12:09] So we host the green eggs and ham breakfast at sea and have a Seuss library.

[00:12:14] And it's important for parents to know they're coming on board.

[00:12:18] What are they going to be able to do with their little ones?

[00:12:19] Are there going to be things that they know are going to be tried and true?

[00:12:22] Those kinds of things.

[00:12:23] So I think that that was a great example of being very thoughtful and intentional about some of those kinds of collabs.

[00:12:30] So we definitely look at that across entertainment, across the children and youth programs, obviously dining and beverage, those kinds of things.

[00:12:37] I already mentioned some of those.

[00:12:38] So, yeah, it's absolutely part of the marketing mix.

[00:12:40] We work very collaboratively with those stakeholders, other stakeholders internally.

[00:12:45] We think together about how do we think about this?

[00:12:47] What is the right partner?

[00:12:48] How are we going to use it to market?

[00:12:50] How will it help us with the onboard experience and all of that?

[00:12:53] Yeah, because in a lot of ways, the product is the marketing, especially in a world of word of mouth.

[00:12:57] And the things that people say about their experience essentially becomes the pillars of your brand.

[00:13:03] So you want to carefully craft that.

[00:13:05] Correct.

[00:13:05] Exactly.

[00:13:06] We'll be right back with the Speed of Culture after a few words from our sponsor.

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[00:14:17] So let's wind back the clock a little bit to your career journey, Amy.

[00:14:21] Because you spend a lot of time in the hospitality space.

[00:14:23] I know you played around other categories as well.

[00:14:25] Why did you enter the world of marketing?

[00:14:27] And how did you end up in the seat you're in today?

[00:14:30] Okay, I'll try and give you the high-level version.

[00:14:32] It was a little bit of a healthy accident.

[00:14:34] It usually is.

[00:14:36] In that I didn't really know what I wanted to do.

[00:14:38] And I sort of stumbled into comms and marketing during my latter half of college.

[00:14:44] And then luckily had an internship at an agency that kind of really introduced me to things.

[00:14:49] And that was phenomenal.

[00:14:50] And I really got interested in the psychology of it, the consumer behavioral piece of it,

[00:14:55] and branding and how brands can play a role in people's lives.

[00:14:59] And so that kind of set me on my journey, really.

[00:15:02] And I really wanted to understand more about how that could move a business forward and drive growth.

[00:15:06] So I got an MBA.

[00:15:08] And then, as you say, I worked in healthcare for a while.

[00:15:10] I worked in finance for a hot minute at MoneyGram.

[00:15:14] And then I ended up in hospitality and travel, which has been kind of, has always been a love of mine anyway.

[00:15:19] So it suited me as well as gave me the chance to work with some great brands like Choice Hotels and then Hilton.

[00:15:25] And, of course, now Carnival Cruise Line.

[00:15:27] So I've really been fortunate.

[00:15:30] I've had a lot of great opportunities.

[00:15:31] I've had a lot of amazing mentors and bosses over the years.

[00:15:35] I've worked hard.

[00:15:36] And I think along the way, I managed to understand how marketing can make an impact.

[00:15:42] And I've focused on that.

[00:15:44] So I think that has really opened doors for me, particularly at Hilton.

[00:15:48] You know, working at Choice, it was such a scrappy brand.

[00:15:51] It's a challenger brand.

[00:15:53] It's actually changed a lot now, right?

[00:15:54] It's acquired so many more brands now.

[00:15:56] But the time I was working there, it was really a challenger brand.

[00:15:59] We had to be so smart.

[00:16:00] Our spend was tiny.

[00:16:01] We used all the tools in the toolbox.

[00:16:03] And then I was able to bring all of those tools to Hilton.

[00:16:05] Because Hilton was a huge legacy brand and had really kind of done well off the back of that over the years.

[00:16:11] And so maybe the marketing wasn't as modern as a brand that really needed to be scrappy.

[00:16:16] So I was able to bring in things like marketing mixed models and modern segmentation and much more modern measurement and metrics and really thinking about the impact of marketing, like I mentioned, and what it drives in terms of growth and identifying growth segments and building brands for those segments.

[00:16:33] And so that really enabled me to kind of move up the ladder because I think leaders saw value in what I was doing.

[00:16:39] So that's kind of how I made my way.

[00:16:42] Very close.

[00:16:42] I'm going to unpack some things, but one, just thought it has to hear you talking is a lot of people focused on the title or the next role.

[00:16:49] But one thing I heard you say is that some of the skill sets that you pick up and master along the way are so important as building blocks to becoming the professional that you ultimately want to be.

[00:16:59] I think that's very well said.

[00:17:01] And I think thinking about how what you want to learn and what you're passionate about can intersect with what the business needs.

[00:17:07] I think when you find that, that's the sweet spot because that means you're going to grow and you're going to add value.

[00:17:13] And so suddenly you're in a position like you're saying.

[00:17:16] So I think that's exactly right.

[00:17:17] I think as you progress in your career, I think when you're more junior, you don't have a big team reporting to you.

[00:17:23] You're not reporting to the board or other executives.

[00:17:26] It's easy to have hands on keyboard and maybe tactically understand new innovations in the advertising space.

[00:17:32] But then the more senior you get in your career, it's often a trap to just become disassociated with whatever is new.

[00:17:41] And often what happens is marketers lose touch.

[00:17:43] And clearly you've continued to focus on these new innovations in marketing to allow you to put yourself in the position.

[00:17:50] How do you balance that over time?

[00:17:52] And when something new comes onto the scene, like let's just say AI in 2024, what is your playbook to get your hands dirty and truly understand the applications of that innovation to your business?

[00:18:03] Yeah, such a great question.

[00:18:04] I think to me, it's always about really learning as much as I can and working with my team and my agency partners to do so.

[00:18:11] Really kind of going on a void and discovery together.

[00:18:14] Understanding how other brands and companies are leveraging those things.

[00:18:18] Thinking about what would be the right application for my brand or company.

[00:18:21] And then testing and learning.

[00:18:22] It's always about that.

[00:18:23] So I think that's kind of the way I approach those things.

[00:18:26] And it served us well and me well in the past.

[00:18:30] I think you always have to be curious and interested or you're going to miss something.

[00:18:34] And that's the death knell.

[00:18:36] And you mentioned, Amy, very early on you got your MBA.

[00:18:39] I'm just curious, in retrospect, was it worth it?

[00:18:42] And was it something you'd recommend to other young people who are coming out of college or should they just dive right into a professional career?

[00:18:49] That's a great question.

[00:18:50] And for me, it was worth it because I'd studied English and comms undergrad and I really had no understanding of how the business world worked.

[00:18:57] I really didn't.

[00:18:58] It wasn't natural to me.

[00:18:59] I had to learn it.

[00:19:00] So for me, that was really important.

[00:19:02] I wanted to understand how companies worked and the financials of it at all and also how marketing could be a driver of that.

[00:19:08] So that's why I did it.

[00:19:10] So I always say it depends.

[00:19:11] If you think it's going to add something to your knowledge set, to what you need, the experience you need or what you need to be able to grow and continue on your path, then absolutely.

[00:19:21] But I don't think it's a requirement.

[00:19:23] And I think you do need actual work experience to really make it pay off.

[00:19:28] So I would never recommend going straight from undergrad to B school.

[00:19:32] Personally, I think one of the big values I got, because I worked for five years before I went, and one of the big values I got was my cohort talking about all the practical things that they'd experienced thus far in their careers.

[00:19:44] And really kind of that conversation and that real life experience was so added value.

[00:19:49] So to me, I think you'd miss that.

[00:19:51] And as you went on, obviously, you mentioned your journey and ultimately you found yourself in the hospitality industry where you pretty much stayed in and you are now.

[00:20:00] What is it about the hospitality industry that gets you so excited about your job and makes you feel like this is the place that you really want to focus the prime years of your career in?

[00:20:09] Yeah, it's another great question.

[00:20:11] I think one of the things that I'm passionate about is the fact that we really are impacting people's lives.

[00:20:17] And maybe not me, personally, but the people on the front lines, our teams are incredible.

[00:20:22] And they are making people's vacations.

[00:20:24] They're helping them make memories that will last a lifetime.

[00:20:27] Lifelong memories, for sure.

[00:20:29] Absolutely.

[00:20:29] And that's the connections that people make with our team, with each other.

[00:20:33] I mean, the number of people who meet cruising friends or cruising love interests, and then they cruise together every year, in the case of the friends, it's wonderful.

[00:20:43] I mean, it's so heartwarming.

[00:20:44] So I think feeling like I'm part of something like that, that adds joy and value to people's lives, I think makes me get up in the morning.

[00:20:52] And I also love travel, and I love what it does for me personally, so I relate to it.

[00:20:57] So I think that's why I ended up staying here.

[00:20:59] I've been very impressed with the frontline employees across the board at Hilton, at Carnival, in my past.

[00:21:05] Just they're people who care deeply about the people they serve.

[00:21:09] And I just am always in awe of them and everything they do.

[00:21:12] So hospitality is eons old.

[00:21:15] People have opened up their homes to weary travelers since day dot.

[00:21:19] So we're just continuing that tradition, and it's beautiful.

[00:21:21] Yeah, I mean, it's well said.

[00:21:23] I think the people are such a big part of the product with a company and brand like yours.

[00:21:27] And you could have the most beautiful ship and go to the best destinations.

[00:21:30] But if the people on board don't make the experience memorable and make the people feel welcome, it doesn't matter.

[00:21:37] So I think, obviously, it's a huge part of your offering overall.

[00:21:40] Yes, I think that's very well said.

[00:21:42] So now here you are in a CMO role.

[00:21:45] And obviously, a big part of your role is how you manage your time and how you work with others.

[00:21:51] So what does a pie chart in a normal week look like for Amy?

[00:21:55] Are you always on cruises, just cruising to these amazing places?

[00:21:57] Or are you at an office doing emails or a little bit of everything?

[00:22:02] A little bit of everything.

[00:22:03] I do cruise quite a bit, which is fantastic.

[00:22:05] I only have cruised for work so far.

[00:22:08] I haven't taken a leisure cruise since I started a year and a bit ago.

[00:22:11] But look, I'm not complaining.

[00:22:13] It's an amazing place to be doing your job.

[00:22:15] So we do production cruises.

[00:22:16] I go on cruises to understand the business and the operations.

[00:22:20] So all those kinds of things.

[00:22:21] So that happens several times a year, at least.

[00:22:24] I think this year I'm on my fourth cruise already.

[00:22:26] And there's a few more to come.

[00:22:28] So yeah, which is great.

[00:22:29] We don't always stay the whole time.

[00:22:31] That's one thing that people probably don't know.

[00:22:32] But we can get off at a destination and fly home if we have to.

[00:22:35] So we don't always stay on.

[00:22:36] So I don't always get to be there for seven days.

[00:22:38] But yeah, a lot of the rest of the time, as you might imagine, I'm in meetings.

[00:22:41] I'm in agency world, meetings in New York with agencies.

[00:22:45] Or I'm different meetings with work and other stakeholders.

[00:22:49] I'm talking to my team, my agencies all the time.

[00:22:52] We're working together with the guest experience teams a lot.

[00:22:56] Just to think about how we're bringing everything together,

[00:22:58] how we're evolving the experience,

[00:23:00] working with our partners like Guy Fieri and Amar Labassi.

[00:23:03] And so yeah, I mean, it's very interesting work.

[00:23:06] Yeah, for sure.

[00:23:07] So switching gears here as we wrap up, Amy,

[00:23:10] such an exciting career and you're such a great role now at Carnival.

[00:23:14] As you look back, and I really appreciate you walking us through your journey.

[00:23:17] You probably, it's probably not something you do every day.

[00:23:19] But when you do look back, what are some of the decisions that you think

[00:23:22] were the right ones along the way?

[00:23:25] Whether it was a key point of transition or key relationships or things you decide to focus

[00:23:30] on that put you in the position that you're in today.

[00:23:32] That's excellent look back material.

[00:23:34] I guess I probably learned early on that my path wasn't going to be linear.

[00:23:40] I often counsel my teams and the other people I'm a mentor for that you sometimes have to zig to zag.

[00:23:47] Like it's not usual that your next thing is an in-situ promotion and then you go from there and you go from there.

[00:23:52] It just generally, you have to look for the right opportunities that the business has.

[00:23:57] Where are the hotspots in the business?

[00:23:58] What's going on?

[00:23:59] Where they need help?

[00:24:00] Where is their growth opportunity?

[00:24:02] That's usually where there'd be growth for somebody like you.

[00:24:05] So putting yourself forward for special assignments, kind of positioning yourself in those kinds of

[00:24:10] places, being willing to do some stuff that maybe isn't all that sexy in the beginning.

[00:24:14] But you learn things, you get credibility, and that can open a door.

[00:24:19] So I think some of those things I did really helped me.

[00:24:22] And then having the right mentors, learning from people across the business,

[00:24:27] in different parts of the business.

[00:24:29] There was a guy at Choice Hotels, Mark Pierce.

[00:24:32] He's sadly no longer with us, but he ran the international division.

[00:24:35] I was dying to work internationally.

[00:24:36] So I did my best to support him.

[00:24:39] And he made worlds open for me.

[00:24:41] I mean, he ended up giving me my first job in London for Choice after many years working

[00:24:46] together.

[00:24:46] And that was phenomenal.

[00:24:47] That was because of the relationship we built.

[00:24:49] So I think the relationships are absolutely critical to your growth and enjoying it along

[00:24:55] the way.

[00:24:56] Absolutely.

[00:24:56] It's so well said.

[00:24:57] And to wrap up here, Amy, is there a mantra or saying that you like to live by?

[00:25:01] That guides your professional career that comes to mind?

[00:25:04] Yes.

[00:25:04] I love the mantra, we rise by lifting others.

[00:25:08] I think it's so beautiful.

[00:25:10] And I think early on, I think I might have thought about it a little bit differently.

[00:25:13] Like I was in a competition and I had to win.

[00:25:15] If I had to win, somebody else had to lose.

[00:25:17] And I just don't believe that anymore.

[00:25:19] I really believe that we make space for others.

[00:25:22] If you get a seat at the table, make some more space for other people.

[00:25:25] And as a woman and a member of the LGBTQ plus community, I really feel strongly about that.

[00:25:30] And I feel strongly about advocating for others who both look like me and don't look like

[00:25:34] me.

[00:25:34] So I think that's really important.

[00:25:36] That's really well said.

[00:25:37] And I want to thank you for taking the time today and sharing your journey and your story

[00:25:40] and your vision with us here on the podcast.

[00:25:42] Thank you so much for having me.

[00:25:44] It's been a pleasure.

[00:25:44] Absolutely.

[00:25:45] Can't wait for our audience to hear this.

[00:25:47] So on behalf of Susie and Iwitine, thanks again to Amy Martin-Ziegenfuss, the Chief Marketing

[00:25:51] Officer at Carnival Clues Alliance, for joining us today.

[00:25:53] Be sure to subscribe, rate, and view the Speed of Culture podcast on your favorite

[00:25:56] podcast platform.

[00:25:57] Until next time, see you soon, everyone.

[00:25:59] Take care.

[00:26:04] The Speed of Culture is brought to you by Susie as part of the Adweek Podcast Network

[00:26:08] and A-Guest Creator Network.

[00:26:10] You can listen and subscribe to all Adweek's podcasts by visiting adweek.com slash podcasts.

[00:26:16] To find out more about Susie, head to susie.com.

[00:26:19] And make sure to search for the Speed of Culture in Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and Google Podcasts

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[00:26:25] Click Follow so you don't miss out on any future episodes.

[00:26:29] On behalf of the team here at Susie, thanks for listening.

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